Who links to me?
My friend over at The Gun Toting Liberal is up in arms about the latest news in the Valerie Plame Affair. Now I like the GTL a lot, we disagree quite a bit but in this instance he begins the post with a mischaracterization of facts and goes down hill from there.
We’re talking about the Valerie Plame / Scooter Libby / leaking of classified information case involving (surprise!) President Bush himself
No we are not. When the president decides to divulge classified information. IT’S NOT CLASSIFIED ANYMORE. How can so many people be so ignorant of this basic fact?
GTL please tell me you understand how this works. The President is Commander in Chief and the Chief Executive he has absolute authority here.
He goes on:
Why not just stand up like a man and say “Yeah, sure. Whatchya gonna dew about it” the first time you’re confronted with it instead of blatantly lying about it no less than five times
You are gonna have to be very specific and explain what exactly you think is a lie here GTL because I have not seen one. I seriously doubt you can come up with one let alone 5.
He goes on to list what I suppose he considers the 5 lies GWB told. I don’t think any one of them is a lie or even misleading.
and then GTL looses it.
Yannow… it’s like this: if this *was* legal, then maybe we should pressure our Congresscritters to make it *illegal* for our President, or anybody else in the country to drop little “secrets” for political, or any other type of personal gain. We’ve got a President and a Veep playing around with classified information as if it’s nothing more than a toy to hang people with should they hold a difference of opinion, and folks - that’s unamerican to me.
First of all as in the wiretapping of terrorists communicating with persons in the US the Congress can not legislate away authority given to the President by the constitution. Ours is a government of three equal branches not a Supreme Legislative Branch that is able to tell the other branches what they can and can not do and change their authority on a whim. If you think the President is leaking information that harms the country you already have a remedy its called VOTING.
Secondly this was not for personal political gain it was THE TRUTH. What was pointed out by releasing formerly classified information included in the National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) is that Joe Wilson was a bald faced liar. He lied about Iraqs attempt to obtain Yellow Cake from Niger, He lied about the evidence of their attempts, and he lied about his wife’s influence in sending him to Niger, and he lied about what he actually learned in Niger which supported that evidence which is in fact what he testified to before congress.
From WaPo link above:
The panel found that Wilson’s report, rather than debunking intelligence about purported uranium sales to Iraq, as he has said, bolstered the case for most intelligence analysts. Wilson’s reports to the CIA added to the evidence that Iraq may have tried to buy uranium in Niger. According to the former Niger mining minister, Wilson told his CIA contacts, Iraq tried to buy 400 tons of uranium in 1998.
Now if you think telling the truth and exposing a liar who is attempting to undermine the President in a time of war is considered personal political gain then we definitely have different views on the matter.
Which brings up the question, what leak are you talking about?
Or are you referring to the leak of Valerie Plames identity as a covert CIA operative? (a very debatable point but a separate argument)
It seems to me you are confusing the two. This most recent story related to Scooter Libby’s perjury charge is about the release of portions of July 18th 2003 Key Judgments Document. Using GTL’s own link to Media Matters (the whacko lefty pseudo media watchdog site) I quote:
A court filing by special counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald, disclosed just this week, refers to testimony by former vice presidential chief of staff I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby that he disclosed portions of a classified National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) to Miller only after being authorized to do so by Bush.
This is a non story, and the Bush haters on the left fell for it hook line and sinker. GTL usually isn’t a member of this crowd. I hope he realizes his error.
****Update*******
Newshog basically ignores any facts in the story and uses it as the latest excuse to bash the President.
********Update 2*********
Today’s Washington Post editorial titled A Good Leak reiterates my point with GTL.
Sunday, April 9, 2006; Page B06
PRESIDENT BUSH was right to approve the declassification of parts of a National Intelligence Estimate about Iraq three years ago in order to make clear why he had believed that Saddam Hussein was seeking nuclear weapons. Presidents are authorized to declassify sensitive material, and the public benefits when they do.
The next line however reads:
But the administration handled the release clumsily, exposing Mr. Bush to the hyperbolic charges of misconduct and hypocrisy that Democrats are leveling.
Ok fine I can agree with that. What the President should have said is “Joe Wilson is a liar and the NIE proves it. So today we are declassifying the NIE to demonstrate the lies Joe Wilson told in his Op-ED.” but George Bush doesn’t operate that way. Did any of you see his exchage with the guy who told him how he was more afraid of and ashamed at his government than ever before?
President Bush made a joke and answered the guys point honestly. He also informed the crowed the man had a right to his opinion and the disagreed. Sometimes to his own detriment GWB is a class act and above the usual smash mouth politics of our times.
Todays Op-Ed goes even further in explaining the details of why this is such a non story unless the story is what a liar Joe Wilson is.
Mr. Wilson subsequently claimed that the White House set out to punish him for his supposed whistle-blowing by deliberately blowing the cover of his wife, Valerie Plame, who he said was an undercover CIA operative. This prompted the investigation by Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald. After more than 2 1/2 years of investigation, Mr. Fitzgerald has reported no evidence to support Mr. Wilson’s charge. In last week’s court filings, he stated that Mr. Bush did not authorize the leak of Ms. Plame’s identity. Mr. Libby’s motive in allegedly disclosing her name to reporters, Mr. Fitzgerald said, was to disprove yet another false assertion, that Mr. Wilson had been dispatched to Niger by Mr. Cheney. In fact Mr. Wilson was recommended for the trip by his wife. Mr. Libby is charged with perjury, for having lied about his discussions with two reporters. Yet neither the columnist who published Ms. Plame’s name, Robert D. Novak, nor Mr. Novak’s two sources have been charged with any wrongdoing.
My friend GTL may be surprised to see Newsbusters is praising the normally left leaning WaPo for supporting President Bush’s declassifying of the NIE information.
Protein Wisdom reminds us that when the President authorizes the release of classified information it is not a leak, but I liked his qoute of consistent moonbat Firedoglake:
firegodlake’s Jane Hamsher called the editorial “bullshittiness of the highest fucking bullshit order,†then, after burning her Ben Bradlee doll with a cigarette, downed a half bottle of some Stoli Vanilla and coughed up her spleen.
We can only hope.
Right Wing Nuthouse still loves the Washington Post despite their leftward slant and cites todays article as an example of their better than average reportage.
Brainster lets us all know he settled this non story a long time ago. As an aside if you ever want to get to the truth of a story or an editorial running in the Washington Post today just go to Brainsters archives and check his postings from 3 months previous. You will find he has reported the real story and the whole story nearly every time long before the post or any other MSM knew there was a story.
My new bloggin buddy and up and commer Blue Crab Boulevard (I have to ask him about that name) says: This is, I think, enough for reasonable people to let this matter go. Though I rather doubt a lot of people will. Read the aforementioned reaction from firedoglake to confirm your prediction Blue Crab.
Flopping Aces says it most succinctly:
* Bush authorized the declassification of classified material, so no leak
* The information that was released proved that Joe Wilson was lying since he reported that Iraq HAD contacted Niger about uranium but went to the MSM stating exactly the opposite.
* Bush had a duty to refute Wilson’s statements
Wizbang can hardly believe it!
It’s hard to believe but true. The Washington Post said in its lead Sunday editorial A Good Leak that President Bush was right to declassify the National Intelligence Estimate about Iraq and release it for public consumption:
Don Surber says the WaPo has always been fair.
The Washington Post in my lifetime has been a fair umpire.
The lead editorial in the Sunday newspaper is the Washington Post’s most important editorial. By calling for an end to this relentless persecution of the presidency — an undermining of the commander-in-chief at a time of war — the Washington Post has set itself apart from the newspapers that are partisan and vindictive.
*****Update 3*******
Gateway Pundit has a long list of lies Joe Wilson has told about the Niger Yellow Cake story and other general moonbattery from Wilson.
Linking Posts
[…] ***** This post was linked to by The Real Ugly American with What Leak Are You Talking About? Technorati Tags:Â Bush, Cheney, corruption, leak, politics, Scooter Libby, Valerie Plame […]
Pingback by The Gun Toting Liberal » Blog Archive » And they’re saying this was “legal”… � April 8, 2006 @ 6:10 pm
Hey bro… first of all… I appreciate the fact that you took the time to comment on my post and link to it - it means a lot to me. Thank for that…
TRUA: “When the president decides to divulge classified information. IT’S NOT CLASSIFIED ANYMORE.”
True enough, which is why I’m not saying what the President did was illegal. Unethical perhaps, but not *technically* illegal. Calling it a “declassification” versus a “leak” is only a matter of semantics in this particular case and that is how I will always see it, I’m fairly certain.
TRUA: “The President is Commander in Chief and the Chief Executive he has absolute authority here.”
My friend, yes, he IS the Commander In Chief… of the United States military. For those who are not in the Military, he is our SERVANT. His job is to command the United States military at the will of his bosses - US. He is our ultimate servant; he answers to all Liberal Americans and all Conservative Americans - not the other way around, my friend.
TRUA: “You are gonna have to be very specific and explain what exactly you think is a lie here GTL because I have not seen one.”
Let’s look at what comes up when we Google for the definition of the word “lie” -
“a statement that deviates from or perverts the truth”
Now when I read the statements he made (as seen in my post - go there if you haven’t read them yet) in regards to the subject, it clearly meets the definition of a “perversion of the truth”, but I wouldn’t expect you to see it that way. But I see what I see, too - a lie which meets the definition of the word.
TRUA: “First of all as in the wiretapping of terrorists communicating with persons in the US the Congress can not legislate away authority given to the President by the constitution.”
Heh… we’ve already had that discussion before, my friend, and IIRC, we “agreed to civilly disagree” with each other on it. Haven’t changed my mind on the subject yet, not likely to (you or I)
TRUA: “If you think the President is leaking information that harms the country you already have a remedy its called VOTING.”
Not saying I’m ready to call for either or (not yet anyway…), but there are two other possible remedies:
“censure”, and “impeachment”
TRUA: “Secondly this was not for personal political gain it was THE TRUTH.”
An obvious, insurmountable, difference of opinion on this one, bro (pulling out the “agree to civilly disagree again” card).
TRUA: “Now if you think telling the truth and exposing a liar who is attempting to undermine the President in a time of war is considered personal political gain then we definitely have different views on the matter.”
“Liar”? They’re ALL damned liars, my friend - Dems, Reps alike. We cannot just sit here and take the statements from a bunch of damned lying crooks and take any of their words over anybody else in that sewerhole called “Washington”.
We need to let the politicos play the politics while we, the People, sort through the rubbish in an attempt to find the Truth (with a capital “T”).
This NY Times article brings up some other good points that oppose the ones you’ve raised which should alsot be considered. There are two sides to most stories coming out of that sump tank and the crooks who pollute it on Capitol Hill.
Some interesting snippets:
Another one…
Another one…
Another one…
And lots of other interesting tidbits
Look - I’m FOR the Iraq war… we’re fighting the terr’sts on Iraqi soil, and not here. I support the President as far as this war effort goes and always have. But hey - you’ve gotta admit - some of this stuff looks mighty shaky at best.
As always, I appreciate your point of view and the “linkie luv”, bro. I don’t suppose we’re going to agree on this one, but then again, if the only time I hear any dissention from you is on the topics you disagree with me on, then we probably agree on quite a bit of other common ground is the way I see it.
Last but not least…
STEVE!
What the hell are ya doin’, brother? Stop being such a darned GOOFBALL about this difference in political opinions you are having with Rick right now. I can’t speak for Rick, but I can tell you, even though we SHARPLY disagree at times (as you can see), I *still* would enjoy having a beer or three with the guy… and hey, like yourself, I like Feigold, too… A LOT!
But man… you two go WAYYYY back with each other. We’re not having a frigging armed revolution here between Dems and Reps, dude. We’re all just a bunch of patriots who are trying to make this a better country.
Chill, man!
… and blog ON y’all…
Comment by Gun Toting Liberal � April 8, 2006 @ 7:02 pm
Thanks for replying GTL, like you I appreciate the debate.
I wish you would answer the basic questions I raised about your post however which I do not think you did. So I will ask them plainly. Your answers would be greatly appreciated.
1. Do you think the President should defend himself from charges in a New York Times Op Ed that claims he lied about intelligence? particularly intelligence that says Iraq was attempting to buy yellow cake?
2. Do you agree Joe Wilson lied in his Op Ed?
3. Just how exactly would you propose the President defend himself against a man who claimed to be citing secret intelligence information other than releasing the pertinent information?
4. Do you understand there is a difference between declassifying and releasing information on the Niger intelligence and releasing Valerie Plames identity?
5. Do you understand this story is about the Niger intelligence and not the Valerie Plame leak?
Comment by The Ugly American � April 8, 2006 @ 7:57 pm
1. I don’t think he needs to answer the questions, I think bipartisan investigations need to take place until the Truth with a capital “T” has been determined. I do not trust many of our politicians right now, from the bottom to the very top.
2. Sounds like it. Sounds like President Bush has manipulated some Truths, too. Which is why I responded with “They’re all a bunch of damned liars.”
3. I”m tired of the President (or Mr. McClellan more like it) “defending himself”. Enough good questions have been raised that warrant bipartisan investigations by the People - the owners of this Government. They’re our buildings, those are our light bills, and we even pay for those smoke-filled rooms. I don’t feel like I’m getting my money’s worth lately. If that means investigating President Bush, Ted Kennedy, Tom Delay, or whomever, I say GO FOR IT. I’m tired of being shat on as a Citizen and owner. NOBODY is above the law, and that includes those in our Executive Branch, too.
4. I never accused the President of leaking Valerie Plame’s identity. It is possible though, that this happened as a biproduct of the “leak”, “declassification”, or whatever we want to call it. Only time, and the facts will reveal the Truth in the matter. I’m not afraid of the Truth, are you?
5. See above.
My friend, it is always a pleasure. I will point out again, I am not a Democrat, I am a Liberal. The gap between the two is growing wider and wider, but I despise what has become of the GOP *slightly* (can’t emphasize that enough) less than what has become of the DNC.
Because I am not a pawn to either of those horrendous parties, I am less susceptible to partisan talking points tactics than most political bloggers are. I think they are just about ALL a bunch of bums, and that includes most of the most powerful Republicans, too.
I just want my frigging country back, and I STILL have a serious problem with my President playing politics with classified information.
Let me ask you this - how would you like President Hillary to enjoy the powers of the Presidency which are being set in stone with precedence being laid down now by this President? If that doesn’t scare the hell out of you, I do not know what will. Or President McCain (perhaps even worse)? If that gives you a “warm fuzzy”, I’ll be shocked.
Nice chat, bro…
Comment by Gun Toting Liberal � April 8, 2006 @ 8:18 pm
No I don’t want Hillary having that power. McCain I don’t mind at all. I firmly believe he wins in a landslide if he can get the Republican nomination.
Either way I believe the President no matter who it is has the authority. It is up to the electorate to keep a skunk from getting in office.
Comment by The Ugly American � April 8, 2006 @ 8:29 pm
“No I don’t want Hillary having that power.”
Me neither. Same with most Democratic voters. Same with most Republican voters.
But this President is paving the way for President Hillary to wiretap, to use classified info for political gain, to use RealID for personal gain, etc., etc., etc.
If that doesn’t scare the hell outta ya, nothin’ will, bro! We MUST get rein in these new Presidential “powers” before that happens. I know, I know, you believe these are 200+ year old Presidential powers, and we disagree… but again…
“President Hillary”
‘Nuff said
Comment by Gun Toting Liberal � April 8, 2006 @ 9:38 pm
We are a nation of laws GTL not of men. Those laws are the same no matter who is in office. As we have discussed before at this point all precedent is on the Presidents side here. There are two ways to change it. 1. A real victim of his policy who is claiming their rights have been violated needs to come forward and then that case will be litigated and a decision handed down. or 2. Congress passes legislation limiting the Presidents authority here. The President will of course disagree and the case will be litigated and a decision handed down.
Until that time we can only agree to disagree 8).
Comment by The Ugly American � April 9, 2006 @ 7:08 am
No prob, bro… agree to disagree once again
Comment by Gun Toting Liberal � April 9, 2006 @ 10:14 am
Thanks for the kind words. And yeah, I knew I was going to be right, I got swarmed for a while there - had to do a mass delete, see the comment sections.
Man, some of those folks really need to get their own blogs. I’m talking a three page comment for pete’s sake.
GTL, (nice to meet you) - Can I ask you to read something? This post, if you have time.
Comment by Gaius Arbo � April 9, 2006 @ 2:59 pm
Nice to meet you too, Gaius…
Read the post. Not bad. Brought up some good points.
BUT - NOBODY is above the law, especially our nation’s highest SERVANT. He must display impeccable integrity at all times and never abuse his power.
Not saying he has done any of these things, BUT - the Democrats have a point - it is worthy of further investigation until the Truth can be determined.
Yes, I know he’s a busy man… but that is no excuse for potentially abusing the trust of the American People. Only time, and a thorough investigation will tell. This isn’t partisan - I think we need to investigate at least half of the Democrats as well.
I just want my country, my voice, and the middle class back. Pure and SIMPLE.
Blog ON, friend…
Comment by Gun Toting Liberal � April 9, 2006 @ 8:18 pm