Who links to me?
I had to steal this from a Euro message board that I frequent.
HT to a man I only know as Chooby.
Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim outrage.
Muslim officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. No Muslim outrage.
Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia. A Christian school. No Muslim outrage.
Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq. No Muslim outrage.
Muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt. No Muslim outrage.
A Muslim attacks a missionary children’s school in India. Kills six. No Muslim outrage.
Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia. Muslims shoot children in the back. No Muslim outrage.
Let’s go way back. Muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics. No Muslim outrage.
Muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel. No Muslim outrage.
Muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses. Over 700 are injured. No Muslim outrage.
Muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder. No Muslim outrage.
Muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali. No Muslim outrage.
Muslim newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons. No Muslim outrage
Muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world. No Muslim outrage.
Muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge. No Muslim outrage.
Newspapers in Denmark and Norway publish cartoons depicting Mohammed. …Muslims are outraged!
Is there a stronger word than outraged?
I think that is what Aaron’s CC was going for with this post.
*******Update***************
One of the commentors on this thread (Sri Ramkrishna) left a link to a fantastic article by Afsaneh Najmabadi a professor of history and women’s studies at Harvard University and Iranian immigrant to the USA.
It was written shortly after September 11th 2001. Although the auther does get morally confused at the end of the article imo I did sincerely appreciate the sentiment and main point of the article.
I felt it deserved to be read by as many folks as possible so I decided to move it here to the main post. I hope you all take the time to read the whole thing.
Linking PostsWrong, regardless
Every time we choose to “explain”, we become implicated
By Afsaneh NajmabadiSeptember 18, 2001
The IranianLike so many people around the world, I, an Iranian living in the United States, have been deeply pained by the tragedy of September 11th. Yet after the shock of the first few days, I became increasingly aware that what I was feeling was not just pain, and definitely not just sympathy for those killed, the immediate survivors and their loved ones.
Initially I thought I was experiencing this “excess” discomfort because my Middle Eastern origin had put me in a position of feeling as if I had to “explain” what had happened, or to defend and apologize for my sympathies for those people in the Middle East who are fighting injustices and wrongs of various sorts and who were now increasingly seen to be somehow implicated in this tragedy.
Though my sense of refusing to be put in this position was real, I soon began to realize that my refusal was connected to feelings of shame and responsibility for what had happened. How could I possibly feel responsible for this event, my friends have asked me, when I have indicated this state of mind to them?
To answer their question, I have had to go to other instances over the past thirty years when I had similar feelings. The first to come to mind was the hostage crisis in 1979-80, and then Ayatollah Khomeini’s fatwa on Salman Rushdie in 1989. In both instances the same feeling of shame and responsibility overcame me.
So here is an attempt to explain to other Middle Easterners:
The people who took American hostages in Tehran in 1979 clearly felt America had done Iran wrong and this was their way of setting things right in the world. Those of us — Iranians/Middle Easterners, residing in the Middle East or located elsewhere — who did not agree with the action, more often than not chose to act as “explainers”: explaining why people in Iran were angry at the US (usually starting with the 1953 coup and there goes a familiar story).
To the extent that we chose to explain, I suggest, we became implicated in regenerating an ethical stance and a political culture that encourages the idea that the wronged ones are morally entitled to do anything; a popular motto was “by any means necessary,” and it was up to the oppressed to decide the modalities of that necessity.
What was the alternative? I think there was an ethical and political alternative; a stand that would say regardless of what the United States had done in Iran, it was wrong to take those hostages. This was in fact the gut-reaction of many ordinary (that is, outside Islamist and anti-imperialist left) Iranians in Iran.
But this was a very dangerous position for any Iranian to take inside Iran. Outside Iranians in their great majority did not take this stand. Many of the most articulate Iranians chose “to explain.”
This pertains to much of what is happening in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Every time a Palestinian suicide bomber kills a group of Israelis, I hope against all odds that some voice from among Palestinians, especially those Palestinians living in the relative safety and comfort of Europe and America, would say loudly and with no prevarication, that despite everything Israel has done and continues to do to Palestinians, it is wrong to commit this act, instead of trying to “explain” how it is part of a cycle of violence, etc. At most we may hear: it is wrong, but. . . .
Yet every time that we say “but”, every time we choose to “explain”, we become implicated in regenerating a political culture and an ethical outlook that becomes part of the state of being in the world that allows hostage-taking and suicide bombing. It allows the September 11th tragedy.
It is in this sense that I think we were all implicated in that tragedy. We have become part of the conditions of possibility for these kinds of actions. To the extent that we, Middle Easterners, raise our critical voices, we would make the work of those Americans (and Israelis) who are engaged in explaining (in their case a necessary work) easier, their voice more credible for a wider audience.
To the extent that we say these acts are wrong despite the prior history that is often invoked to explain them, we put Americans in a stronger position to also say: despite September 11th, going to war is wrong. In an important sense, I take my courage to say these words from the brave Americans who have already begun to organize against possible military action by their government and have said by words and deeds: it is wrong to go to war despite September 11th.
My heroes and heroines of last week were the two hundred young Iranians who held a spontaneous candlelight vigil in Tehran to express their pain and sympathy for American people. It was a brave gesture that gives me hope against all odds.
An interesting list to say the least. So, just what as civilised westerners should we do?
Comment by trueredd � February 6, 2006 @ 2:10 pm
Hello? Anyone home? For how many years have the Moslem majority been extremist? One thousand?? They make the Christians in the South East “Bible belt” look like silly light weights. These guys do not hesitate to kill. They haven’t changed.
Now everyone is surprised??
Hello, what are you thinking??
Comment by Tom � February 6, 2006 @ 2:37 pm
You might consider that Iran held candlelight vigils to honor the 9/11 victims. (soon after Bush called Iran part of the Axis of Evil, not diplomatic considering strategically you could have made Iran an ally in the war of terror by harnassing those feelings by the common people)
http://www.iranian.com/Opinion/2001/September/Wrong/
sri
Comment by Sri Ramkrishna � February 6, 2006 @ 2:38 pm
Re: Sri Ramkrishna
I hear you and I believe that “true” followers of Mohammed reject the violent activities of the protests. But in the world of religious violence, do you argue that the Moslems are not the most violent?
Cartoons mocking Jesus, the Jews and the other religious only bring yawns to the world. Admittedly, some Christian fundementalist are willing to kill doctors who perform abortions in order to save unborn badies, but we chase them down and put them in jail. For the most part, most Christians do not kill. However, mock Mohammed and the arab world becomes embroiled in violent protests.
Sorry Sri, but peaceful is not a term usually associated with Moslems……..
Comment by Tom � February 6, 2006 @ 3:26 pm
The End of Reason
As with many things, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. In this case, itÂ’s in the Koran. What should also be understood is the fact that these are the people we are attempting to deal with worldwide. In Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan, …
Trackback by Blue Star Chronicles � February 6, 2006 @ 5:59 pm
first of all Thank you for the link Sri. I really appreciated it and think more folks should read it. I am moving the article to the main page in its entirety in this thread.
I think I should also repost my reaction when initially reading the post above that I “borrowed” from Chooby.
Muslims have every right to be insulted, and angry. They have every right to protest and demand firings or boycots etc.
They have no right to riot in the streets, burn embassies, commit various acts of violence, threaten to murder the offenders or demand governments censor their free press.
I hope you were not suggesting that the Iranian government could have been made an ally in the war against Islamofascism as that is absurd. They were included in the “Axis of Evil” speach for good reason.
GWB did speak directly to the people of Iran then and did so again in his recent SOTU speach. I strongly believe our government should be supporing the people of Iran to either peacefully, or by force remove the mullahs in currently in control of Iran.
Comment by The Ugly American � February 6, 2006 @ 7:11 pm
The cartoons are harmless and their reaction is unreasonable, but that’s no excuse for you to be deliberately divisive. The conservative newspaper which started this did so to dredge ratings from the xenophobic masses, as are you.
You read like that “Stormfront” circle-jerk, who give this same treatment to every single reported crime with a non-white suspect. You could at least try to thinly veil your racism.
Comment by Railroad Stone � February 6, 2006 @ 8:10 pm
I find it hard to believe you actually read what I said Railrode.
Perhaps you can explain what the proper reaction should be and point out where exactly I went wrong 8).
Comment by The Ugly American � February 6, 2006 @ 8:15 pm
This is the tip of the ole iceberg my friends and if this is any indicator of the pulse of the Muzlim community right now…then we had better PRAY.
Comment by Angel � February 6, 2006 @ 8:24 pm
ThreE QuestionS
My first question is this:
The Muzlim women, if thats what you can call these particular ones in Qum, (the second most sacred city in Iran) need a serious geography lesson.
Due to “sketches”, which were viewed as anti-Izlamic, women in Qum gather…
Trackback by Woman Honor Thyself � February 6, 2006 @ 8:36 pm
Do I really need to smack this nonsense down? I do? Ok.
1. As is generally the case, you’re “point” needs a strawman: the lack of Muslim outrage. It is simply false. Just like when the President rails against isolationists or those who think the government should direct the economy. Arguing against false strawmen is a great way to vent one’s rage. Unfortunately, the arguments so advanced are meaningless as they start with a false premise.
2. You fail — spectacularly — the “shoe on the other foot test.” Where’s the Western outrage?! Many tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi’s killed? Thousands of innocent Afghani’s killed whose only crime was that they too were victims?
Our credibility with the broader Muslim community is much impaired by our continuing failure to own up to the things we’ve done that read like the moral equivalent of terrorism to them. Our actions may or may not be justified: but our refusal to brook any discussion renders us amoral in that world. (To our detriment.)
As satisfying as it may be to you to think of the world’s Muslims as blood-thrirsty kooks, that mindset is simply false. It will also, if unchanged, lead us into a conflagration that is both horrible and unnecessary.
Comment by Jim Pharo � February 7, 2006 @ 5:37 am
Maybe you don’t see the muslim outrage because the media doesn’t think it’s sexy enough?
Why do you think car chases in Los Angeles are the #1 rated show on TV?
Voilence, Sex, Hatred…they all sell. Peace, Happiness, Unity is boring. Seriously, can you imagine a Dr. Phill episode where everone on the program is happy and okay with their lives? Can you imagine a reality show about people that don’t complain about mundain things and are simply satisfied with the hand they are dealt?
Nope. Boring.
Comment by UnoWho � February 7, 2006 @ 6:40 am
While it’s only one response to the long laundry list: I lived in Saudi Arabia where the girls were locked in the schoolhouse when it was fire.
And there was plenty of outrage. And many of the reforms coming about now are in response to events such as that one.
Comment by bmunch � February 7, 2006 @ 10:38 am
Sorry, not a regular reader of the site.
I’m not saying the govt of Iran would, but there was a lot of shock in the muslim world by what was done. It could have been a clarion call for change within the muslim community.
But as soon as one points fingers say Iran or whatever with a label, the inherit nationalism will put people behind their government rather than promoting honest debate by perhaps Islamic scholars. Sometimes confrontation is not the right choice. We did that here during 9/11.
So my wish was that the president could have used charm and used it to his advantage. But then hindsight is 20/20 and perhaps at the time we were not in the mood.
To this day I believe that was the wrong call.
Tom: I think half that crap is that a couple people started it and then a bunch of people formed a mob and since they can act out their aggression since there are no consequences. (did you see any police there?) Also notice that most them were all students. We see plenty of that kind of stuff here in this country. People get sweeped up. You don’t need to subscribe to any religion for that. It just happens that the whole country is a singular religion. Frankly, no govt should tolerate that. The rule of law and order should be paramount.
sri
Comment by Sri Ramkrishna � February 7, 2006 @ 2:41 pm
Well, Ugly, I think Jim Pharo’s post point’s out ‘where exactly you went wrong’ fairly succinctly. Thanks for that, Jim.
Your argument is wrong, firstly, because there is Muslim outrage. We get to see it on Not Fox News. The motive for your argument is obviously either simple redneck xenophobia, or the desire to utilise simple redneck xenophobia. (By getting more traffic than you deserve.)
There’s a lot of wingnuts out here already, Ugly. There’s nothing mysterious in what you do.
Comment by Railroad Stone � February 7, 2006 @ 3:02 pm
my only point is that there are more than one billion muslims in the world. generalizing about anything is always stupid (ok, that’s a generalization too) but especially generalizing about people who belong to any “group” is bound to be wrong. isn’t that obvious? but all we hear is “muslims” this and “muslims” that. substitute any other group and see how that sounds to you - ‘americans’, ‘white people’, ‘catholics’, ‘jews’, etc … let’s hear the media start talking about other groups that way and see how they feel about.
Comment by tom lichtenberg � February 7, 2006 @ 3:08 pm
I am guessing this is Railroads and Jim Pharo’s first and second trips to my site ever?
If you had read the blog before or had a conversation with me or actually knew me you would know that I am in fact not a racist or any of the other ad-hominems you so freely toss out in lieu of an actual argument.
I certainly do not condemn all muslims for the actions of a few. However I am not a prisoner of the PC crowd and call them as I see them. There is no Christian or Jewish, or Budist, or any other religion equivilent to the consistent level of violence we see committed by self proclaimed followers of Islam.
The fact is there is a very large segment of Islam ( I believe Islamofascists is the most descriptive word for it) who consistently and repeatedly riot, burn, threaten, murder, and maim, in the name of Islam. There is no equivilent in any other religion.
If you are aware of Muslim riots and murder committed in reaction to any of the examples above please link to some proof.
To be clear perhaps Railron and Jim can tell us if they support the Danes or anyone else’s right to create these cartoons and publish them?
I am sure you are aware of other offenses committed against Christians and Jews are you not?
Were there any riots, murders, bombings after those offenses?
Face facts fellas there is a serious problem with Islam. We did not create it, nor are we responsible for anyone else’s actions. You may want to read the Wrong Regardless article that Sri was kind enough to link to and that I moved to the main page.
Comment by The Ugly American � February 7, 2006 @ 5:15 pm
Sri,
First: The cartoons were published, if I remember correctly, last October. When a local Danish Moslem requested an apology from the newspaper, he was denied. Then this Moslem then took the 12 cartoons, and added several more, which I understand are more “insulting” from other papers, and forwarded them to Egyptian & Lebanese religious leaders. Begin the turmoil.
You assert that we see plenty of these demonstrations in this country. Which country? The last time we had demonstrations in the US, were people were killed and property was destroyed was a long time ago, i.e. Vietnam War protester at Kent State. We have police shootings everyday, but they are killing “so called crooks/thiefs/bad guys, not political or religious demonstrators.
As far as people getting “swept upâ€, I am afraid that the press/media in the US is a wholly owned subsidiary of corporate America, which makes sure there aren’t any publications printed for wide spread distribution in the US that are “way†unsettling. By the way, this reason behind the character assignations of a variety of presidential candidates by the media is to ensure those remaining are “purchasable†by corporate political donations. The corporate press is doing a wonderful job at keeping the American sheep clueless. If not, we would be having demonstrations with regard to the endless stupid decisions by the moron in the white house. But even if we did have demonstrations in the US, I doubt the police in America would be shooting Americans, nor do I see “us†burning down the white house.
Correct me if I am wrong, but don’t the Moslem protests basically ask the rest of the non-Moslem world to submit to Moslem dogma? Sorry Sri, but I think the world could care less what the Moslems think. Respect is earned through leadership, not intimidation.
Tom
Comment by Tom � February 8, 2006 @ 11:50 am
tom lichtenberg -
“All blanket statements are false, except for this one.” - Me, circa 1992.
Ugly, I am sorry I called you racist, but I see no other motive in your post, and I stand by my opinion.
I’m sure some equally “non-racist” muslim is currently using Charles Manson or Tim McVeigh as an example of our “western culture”.
e.g.
“Killing innocent people to start a race-war. No Christian outrage. Testing effects of radiation by poisoning retarded children’s milk? No Christian outrage. Supporting South American Death Squads? No Christian Outrage. Using chemical weapons in Faluja? No Christian outrage.
Putting a crucifix in urine? Christians are outraged!”
It doesn’t take any great mind to invent this shit.
You defend it all you want, but I call it, and it’s author, racist.
Comment by Railroad Stone � February 8, 2006 @ 7:41 pm
Welcome to the front page Rail Road.
Comment by The Ugly American � February 9, 2006 @ 7:51 pm
Railroad Stone:
As the US government/big business carefully filter the dead bodies from our evening news, it is no small wonder that the Christian majority in the US doesn’t get upset. They are clueless. Most “heavy duty” re-born Christians I know “only” read the bible and when it comes to voting for a president, they decide on a single issue: pro-choice or pro-life.
How many tens of thousands of innocent women and children have been killed in the US’s fraudulent war with Iraq? Yet a large number of Americans choose to be “happily” ignorant of these deaths. And yet every day, these same dead women and children become posters for recruiting new “terrorists” who will fight in Iraq.
Which group is dumber? In a world were everyone is told to go for win-win, this is surely a lose-lose situation that bodes ill for all.
Comment by Tom � February 13, 2006 @ 9:01 am
The Muslim World is afraid of the USA for a simple reason. We have freedom of religon. Every man or woman in this country may worship their God the way they feel is right.
There are leaders in the Muslim community that see this as a threat to their power. So they cry out “Distroy the Infidel” and seek yet another bloody war.
So we must fight to protect our country and our rights. Because if the Muslims have their way, there will be no freedom and the world would be a dark and evil place
Comment by John Trottier � September 19, 2006 @ 8:46 pm