Glenn Greenwald of course completely agrees with this Op Ed in the New York Times from Joseph J. Ellis.. They both conclude that those of us who take the terrorism threat seriously are a bunch of frightened rubes who have been manipulated by the spin masters.

This first question I have is if their argument is so sound why do they continue to attempt to mislead people to make their point? The very first paragraph of Ellis’ Op-Ed says:

In recent weeks, President Bush and his administration have mounted a spirited defense of his Iraq policy, the Patriot Act and, especially, a program to wiretap civilians, often reaching back into American history for precedents to justify these actions.

He conspicuously fails to mention these “civilians” are on international calls with known Al Qaeda members or affiliates. Something most people would consider relevant.

Ellis goes on:

My first question: where does Sept. 11 rank in the grand sweep of American history as a threat to national security? By my calculations it does not make the top tier of the list, which requires the threat to pose a serious challenge to the survival of the American republic.

Here is my version of the top tier: the War for Independence, where defeat meant no United States of America; the War of 1812, when the national capital was burned to the ground; the Civil War, which threatened the survival of the Union; World War II, which represented a totalitarian threat to democracy and capitalism; the cold war, most specifically the Cuban missile crisis of 1962, which made nuclear annihilation a distinct possibility.

Sept. 11 does not rise to that level of threat because, while it places lives and lifestyles at risk, it does not threaten the survival of the American republic, even though the terrorists would like us to believe so.

To which Greenwald responds:

All of this seems obvious at this point. The total number of Americans killed by Islamic terrorists in the last 5 years — or 10 years — or 20 years — or ever — is roughly 3,500, the same number of deaths by suicide which occur in this country every month. This is the overarching threat around which we are constructing our entire foreign policy, changing the basic principles of our government, and fundamentally altering both our behavior in the world and the way in which we are perceived.

The first question for both Ellis and Greenwald would be exactly how serious do you believe this threat to be?

Is it more serious than a hangnail but less serious than let’s say drunk driving?

Oh that’s right Glenn already answered. The possibility of Mass suicide is a far more dangerous threat than an organized world wide network of terrorists who have publicly and repeatedly stated their objectives are:

1. The destruction of the United States
2. The extinction of Israel
3. The imposition of fundamentalist Islam on the entire world.

Ellis points out that in the war of 1812 “the national capital was burned to the ground”.

True and on 9/11 the two tallest buildings in the world came crashing down. Our nation’s most populated city was attacked. Our nation’s military headquarters (located in the capital city) was attacked and severely damaged. 4 civil airplanes were simultaneously hijacked, and over 3,000 civilians were killed in the single largest attack to ever occur on American soil. That’s pretty big. Don’t you think?

We now know that the White House itself was a target. Only through the inspiring bravery of the men and women of the NYC fire and police departments, the incredible heroism of a few civilian passengers on one of those planes, the heroic actions of one man in the WTC, and sheer luck in the timing did we avoid the deaths of thousands more.

Ellis also reminds us (he is a historian see and it’s his job to know this stuff) that “World War II, represented “a totalitarian threat to democracy and capitalism.”

I suppose these Al Qaeda guys just want to play tiddlywinks?

All that talk about Sharia law is just nonsense right?

Which begs the next question, do you not take our enemy at his word?

Or do you just not believe they have the means to achieve their objectives?

The professionals whose job it is to protect us from terrorist attacks and military threats believe they do indeed have the will and the means. In fact people who do this for a living and our political leaders on both sides of the aisle say it is a matter of when not if a WMD will be used against this country.

Ellis again draws on his unmatched knowledge of history to quote Patrick Henry and conclude we are all just scared little children afraid of a non existent boogey man under the bed.

What Patrick Henry once called “the lamp of experience” needs to be brought into the shadowy space in which we have all been living since Sept. 11. My tentative conclusion is that the light it sheds exposes the ghosts and goblins of our traumatized imaginations. It is completely understandable that those who lost loved ones on that date will carry emotional scars for the remainder of their lives. But it defies reason and experience to make Sept. 11 the defining influence on our foreign and domestic policy. History suggests that we have faced greater challenges and triumphed, and that overreaction is a greater danger than complacency.

Oh really now? do you think a few of the 6 million jews who were starved, tortured, gassed and stuffed into ovens might have lived if we hadn’t been so “complacent” about Hitler?

Do you think we could have avoided a few of the 60 million plus deaths if we had taken that threat more seriously a little sooner?

Exactly what over reaction are you referring to Mr. Ellis?

Our invasion of Afghanistan and toppling of the Taliban government?

The invasion of Iraq and toppling of our sworn enemy Saddam Hussein?

The imprisonment of Al Qaeda agents in Guantanamo?

The Patriot Act?

The NSA program?

Or all of the above?

Would you equate the prisoners at Guantanamo with the internment of Japanese Citizens?

Would you put the NSA program on the same level as the denial of Habeas Corpus?

Did the Patriot Act result in the closing of any newspapers?

Would you compare the invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan and the undeniably painful efforts our military has undertaken to prevent civilian casualties to lets say…..the fire bombing of Dresden or dropping two atomic bombs on major Japanese cities?

When put that way it just sounds kind of absurd doesn’t it?

This post by American Future is a must read. It addresses the FISA arguments specifically and concludes as I do that Glenn’s comparison of the total number of deaths by Suicide in the US to the number of deaths from terrorism as a specious one.

The Moderate Voice has more.

It seems there other bloggers agreeing with Glenn including Before the Law, and The Long Goodbye.

Although they haven’t specifically endorsed this Op-Ed or Glenn’’s post Jay at Stop the ACLU shows us that the ACLU definitely sees it the same way.

Sister Toldjh and Michelle Malkin on the other hand agree with the Op-Ed from Debra Burlingame whose brother was the pilot of AA flight 77 that was hijacked on 9/11. You have to read Ms. Burlingame’s Op-Ed which is a stark contrast to those of Mr.s Ellis and Greenwald.

This post is also linked to the following bloggers who have Open Trackbacks today: Third World County, Is It Just Me? , Don Surber, and Basil’s Blog,

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